Music Therapy for Kids with Big Feelings
We are so excited to share another podcast-style blog post, with you all! Emma Martin, LPMT, MM, MT-BC and Cacia King Herlihy, MM, MT-BC will be discussing what big feelings are, how music therapy can support kids with big feelings, and ways to help kiddos learn to regulate their emotions.
Give this conversation a listen or read our transcript below to find out more.
Emma Martin: Okay, hello everyone and welcome back to the Sonatina Center's blog podcast post! My name is Emma Martin, I am a Music therapist at the Sonatina Center and with me today I have Cacia. Cacia, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself?
Cacia King Herlihy: Hi everybody my name is Cacia King Herlihy. I am also a music therapist at the Sonatina Center and I've been working with the Sonatina Center, at the Sonatina Center, for I think 4 years this August. I'm a music therapist, I primarily work with small kiddos and kiddos with disabilities. And I love being a music therapist, that's my introduction!
Emma: So, Cacia I wanted to invite you on to this today because I feel like you're the perfect person to talk about our topic for today because of who you primarily work with. So our topic today is music therapy for kids with big feelings. So tell me what a big feeling is.
Cacia: So a big feeling is exactly what it sounds like, it is a feeling that is big. It can be a big reaction, like crying or being really really upset or really sad, but it could also be a positive thing like a lot of excitement or a lot of silliness. So a big feeling can be a positive feeling or what we might see as a more negative feeling. Especially when we're seeing kids having big feelings, oftentimes it's more than just words and expressions but it's their entire body and their entire body is engaged in that feeling. We might often see body dysregulation as well, a lot of wiggling and a lot of movement, and just in general seeming very unstable or dysregulated.
Emma: What might that dysregulation or unstable look like in a kid? What can parents be looking for in their kids that they might recognize as a big feeling and they might need to get some services for that?
Cacia: So I would say the big thing to look out for, when it’s past the point of, something that you can just deal with as a regular parenting moment is if a kiddo is staying in that dysregulated zone for a long time or has a really really hard time getting back to their baseline and just can't get out of that feeling and nothing that parents or caregivers or adults are really doing is helping. Especially if it's like a prolonged amount of time that they’re distressed. When you’ve exhausted all of your resources and you're just not sure what you can do to help your kiddo get back to their baseline.
Emma: And I hear you using the term dysregulation or regulation. So tell me what that term is in relation of “big feeling”
Cacia: Yeah so the term that we talk about a lot is emotional dysregulation vs. emotional regulation. So emotional dysregulation is when we are kind of off-balance and off-kilter versus you know emotional regulation, the opposite, which is when we're kind of in our safe zone and feeling okay and under control. Especially when we talk about a lot of these things what we often say to kids is in your body in control or is your body out of control, using some of that terminology to explain to them, if your body is out of control that means you can't stop yourself, you can’t slow yourself down, you’re unable to use your words, or take breaks, or use strategies, and you might need some extra help when you're out of control, or as we would say, dysregulated.
Emma: Cacia, what are some goals that you would have for a kid with big feelings?
Cacia: Some of the goals that I might have for kiddos with big feelings is to really get them to understand those feelings. And one of the beautiful things about music therapy is that music therapy meets kids where they’re at. And what that really means when we're talking about big feelings is that kids can act out those feelings, and they can express those feelings when they’re in a regulated state. So when they’re feeling good, that's the time that we talk about when you were feeling angry or when you were feeling frustrated. And then we can have them act that out, demonstrate that, and get that feeling in their body with the sensory aspect of music therapy. So they're banging on the drum and they're feeling that anger in their body and they're able to recreate that moment, and then process it and talk about it in just a regular old-fashioned conversation where we're talking about, like “hey how did that feel when you were feeling mad?” And talk about how they can identify that feeling in their body and then practice some strategies for when they're feeling that way so that they can help calm themselves down. And that's what we call in the therapy world bottom-up processing. So we’re focusing on the sensory aspect first and then we’re connecting it to their brain and their thoughts and their actions. But if a kid isn’t able to identify their feeling they're not going to be able to control it. So that’s our very first goal.
Emma: You mentioned some drumming in sessions, what are some other ideas that you might do with kids to work on dysregulation/regulation?
Cacia: Yeah, so we might do some drumming. Very often I have kids act out feelings on the drum because it's just percussion and it's a very simple type of music making. And then once they are able to understand it, then we bring out some melodic instruments, the xylophone, they keyboard, maybe even the guitar or the autoharp and let them experiment on that. But we also might act out our feelings. We might do some creative play, maybe with some dolls or with some Legos. And we act out those feelings, and act out situations where a kiddo might feel that feeling. Or we might listen to music that mimics that feeling and draw a picture of what that feeling looks like or feels like inside of our body, to encourage that mind-body connection. And we also might write songs or sing and express ourselves in a variety of musical ways to increase that connection from their mind to their body so that they can start identifying their feelings. Because once they can start identifying that's when we can start coping and we can learn strategies to deal with those feelings when they happen.
Emma: And the last question I have for you is what can families do at home to help with big feelings?
Cacia: What can families do at home! This is my favorite question. So if you've got a kiddo at home who has big feelings and you are struggling, then the very first thing that I would recommend doing is looking up the Zones of Regulation. I would look up the Zones of Regulation, and there's free printables on their website, and you can print out a visual aid with lots of feelings and they're different zones. So we've got Blue Zone, Green Zone, Yellow Zone, Red Zone. And all of the zones are good. The zones indicate our energy level. So are we low energy, do we have high energy, do we have medium energy? And what really counts is, what do we do with that energy? So it's not the feelings that are bad, it sometimes can be our actions that are bad. So if we hit when we're mad that's not a great thing. It's okay to be mad, but how can we deal with it in a better way? So I would definitely recommend getting some visual aids, they are free and available on the internet. You can look those up. And then another thing that I recommend is talk about positive feelings too. So often what I see people doing is only talking about the negative feelings. If we only talk about negative feelings then every time there's a conversation that comes up about feelings your kid’s going to go, “ugh here we go again I don't want to be lectured, this doesn't feel good, it doesn't make me feel very comfortable.” So talk about when you're feeling happy, or when you're feeling joy. And you can say, “I feel so happy when the family has dinner together” or you can label your child's feelings and say, “I can tell that you're so happy when you're playing with your sibling.” Not just talking about the negative, but talking about the positive too.
Emma: I’ll see if we can link the Zones of Regulation in the blog post. People can click directly from there to find those printables.
Cacia: A few other things that I recommend is, when a kiddo is having big feelings the worst thing that you could do is talk. When kiddos are in that elevated state, when they're really upset, when they're mad, when they're frustrated, their brains shut down. They cannot comprehend language, they just can't. So if you continue talking to your child, then it makes their brain get all confused and jumbled, and it usually just makes things worse. What I would recommend is when you’re kid is having big feelings, and it’s a safe place and you’re not at the grocery store or something like that, just sit down with them. Just be there with them and witness those feelings and support them through that moment and then once they're in a regulated state, that's when we talk about it and that's when we say, “hey you were really upset, let's talk about why that happened and some solutions to that problem.” That is the biggest thing that I recommend to all parents, is talk about it when they're regulated because when they're dysregulated they're not going to show up, and they're not going to be able to have that conversation. And my last little tid bit is a quote that I heard from another therapist and I want to share. I can't remember the name of the therapist, but they said “the side of the child you speak to is the side that shows up” [Dr. Laura Damour from the podcast “Ask Lisa: The Psychology of Parenting”]. So if you talk to your child respectfully and calmly and listen, that's how they're going to react to you as well. If you start lecturing them, or yell, or use harsh language with them, especially when they're young and don't necessarily understand all of the rules about life, then that’s the kid who’s going to show up, is the disrespectful, angry, hurt, rude child. But talking to that positive kiddo, that's what’s going to get you where you wanna go.
Emma: Awesome. Well Cacia, thank you so much for joining me for this. And again if anybody is interested in music therapy services feel free to reach out to The Sonatina Center.
Cacia: Awesome, thanks for having me!